what power should i put on my 233

[Rey]

hey i have a 233 cc i dont know what i should put on it single 300 or twin and how fast would i go with a single 300 .

[Henry Todd]

Good morning Rey!

 

I personally prefer the idea of twins over relying on a single engine to perform the art of propulsion.  Obviously there are pro's and con's for both installations and a lot of the decision-making depends on your wants and needs (And lest we forget, finances!).

 

There are other considerations as well to factor into this type of decision including whether or not you will be including a bracket or some form of transom extension when mounting your new power.

 

On top of that, if you are installing some form of bracket, will it be a floatation-type bracket??  The reason I ask this question is because the installation of a floatation bracket will help support the weight of the engine(s) and help prevent the transom from "Squatting" or sitting lower in the water....  There are a lot of pro's regarding the installation of a bracket but others will argue there are a lot of con's as well....  Ultimately, it depends on what you want.

 

There are a TON of different things you can do and it all depends on what your hopes and desires are for your particular boat.  Is top speed the primary focus or are you leaning more towards reliability or ease of maintenance or the simple "Wow factor?"  What type of boating do you primarily do?  If you use the boat for fishing, do you spend a lot of time trolling or do you prefer to "Run and gun?" 

 

I think Capt. Stanley Lewis has a beautiful pair of Mercury outboards on his F233 CC and he is reporting speeds above 61mph with some throttle left....  I believe he has 250's as well....

 

Give us some additional information regarding your ideas and plans and that way we can try to help with your decision-making.  Believe me, I am a fine spender of other people's money!  Just ask my wife!

 

Henry

[Rick Bettua]

Hi

I can't tell you what you should or shouldn't do but I'll tell you what I plan on doing, fair enough?

My 233 is being built right now and the powerplant I chose was a single Yamaha 350 V-8. Everyone will have a reason and argument for either single or twins and here is mine.  

I spent 30 years in the US Navy as a Master Diver working in and out of small boats around the globe and at my last command prior to retiring I had over a dozen 7-10 meter ribs with either twin Yamaha's or twin Honda's.  Never in my career have I ever been out in a boat where just one of the twins broke down, never not in 30 years of operating small boats with twins!  Now on the other hand if you  ask me how many boats broke down where both engines failed at the same time my answer would be at least three.  

Not much to it, if maintenance is being done the normal suspect is either Fuel or 12 Volt Power and if those are not isolated independently of each other why bother with twins? Power is pretty easy to isolate but not fuel.  

Speed with a single 350 and a "notched hull"  should be in the neighborhood of 47-53 mph.  Sea trials should be in May.

Rick

[Henry Todd]

Mr. Bettua,

It sounds like you will have a nice running 233 when you get her finished up!  Congratulations!  I look forward to seeing photos of the progress.  Are you installing a bracket as well or are you mounting our powerplant straight to the transom?  With your plans of a notched hull, it sounds as though you'll be running some form of bracket or hull extension.  I would love to hear more about your ideas and plans.

I too am in the process of bringing my Formula back to life but I will not see her in the water for quite some time.  I have a lot of ideas and plans and I think she will turn out quite nice when she is finished.  Power for my project will hopefully come in the form of twins and I am partial to Mercury for my own stubborn reasons.  :)  (If money were no object though, I would happily install a couple of the 7Marine outboards but for THAT amount of money, I could have a REALLY nice Cigarette!)

Anyways, back to reality and the topic at hand.  

Rey, when you have the opportunity, please share more of your plans with us and we can try to help with some of your decision making.

Henry

[Rick Bettua]

Hi Henry

My boat is being built with an engine well.  No bracket or extension for a couple reasons but neither is because I don't like them.

-First and foremost it won't fit in the garage and the wife says I can't build another garage!

-I live 30 miles from the Great Barrier Reef, and as the saying goes here  "it is not if your going to hit the reef but when your going to hit it". But it has not happened yet! 

-I asked Allen at Edencraft to notch my hull so I could run my engine higher and get a little better performance but keep the boat agile.  

All the information for the notch came from a friend of mine who is one of America's most respected Naval Architects and Designers.  I bumped into this gentlemen during my time in the Navy and his specialty is designing deep v boats, specifically boats with 24 degree bottoms. :)

So we will have to see what the sea trails reveal.  I know it is a risk but it is a risk I am willing to take. I trust my friends judgement and insight as well as the fine folks at Edencraft that are making it a reality.

Rick

[Henry Todd]

Rick,

I think this boat is a prime candidate for a twin engine application; either I/O's or outboards.  Obviously, this is my opinion but I think the Formula's have been "Underpowered" from the beginning (With the exception of the few rare race boats originally equipped with larger motors.)  These boats are typically quite heavy and I feel they could handle larger amounts of power with ease.

I am very interested to see what you are able to do with the "Notch" in the transom along with any other other tricks you may have up your sleeve with the running surface.  Please feel free to post photos or details as I am sure there are a lot of people who would be interested in your ideas and your progress (Myself included!).

If I remember correctly, majority of people who are running hulls with notched transoms are for improved performance such as high horsepower bass boats and offshore performance and fishing boats.   Having a notched transom allows the engines to be installed higher on the transom while still allowing "Clean" or "Undisturbed" water to make it to the props and gearcases.  The flipside of this coin is if you don't install an engine with a shorter mid-section, you change the center of gravity of the boat.  Now since we are referring to a Formula 233, I doubt that increase in center of gravity will have much impact on your setup but it will change the way the boat performs....  The same can be said for installing the engine(s) directly to the transom versus installing the engines to a bracket, floatation bracket, etc....  

I think you have some great contacts and connections with a lot of knowledgable people in the marine industry and I think if you do your research and follow their advice, you will be quite happy with the end result.

I'd still consider adding a second powerplant though as I previously mentioned, these hulls are typically quite heavy.  I think David brought up some interesting points as well and some benefits of having a second engine.  (We haven't even discussed the amount of pressure that will be placed on the drivetrain with trying to move that much boat with just one engine....)

Lots of fun topics to think about!  Please stay in touch and let us know how things are coming along.  

Henry

[Rick Bettua]

Hi Henry

You bring up some good points!  I guess what I am trying to accomplish is to build a boat that is reasonable to operate but still remain nimble.  

Gasoline cost over here in Australia is about $6.00 per gallon.  Now you may think the big V-8 is very thirsty but if you go to the Yamaha website and look up performance tests for single 350 there are more than a dozen examples of boats with similar hulls with approximately the same weight as our 233's.  This engine is posting mileage between 2.5 and 3.2 mpg! 

You were spot on with using a smaller mid-section!  I will be using a 25" model and to control the boats trim a set of Dana Trim Tabs. These big V-8 were designed to push incredible heavy loads, with a massive gearbox and the industries strongest forged mounting bracket.

An outboard this size did not exist 40-50 years ago neither did notch hulls,  stepped hulls, engine brackets or carbon fiber .  But every now and then technology throws us a bone so why not use it to make an already great hull ride even better. 

We will just have to wait for Sea Trails to find out more.  Cheers all.

Rick

[Henry Todd]

Mr. Bettua,

You will have an outstanding boat that you will be extremely proud of when you finish this build.  I agree with you about the fuel consumption and efficiency of the newer outboards; the technology has progressed a long ways in the last few years.

Dana Marine Products builds a lot of nice marine hardware including their trim tabs.  There is also another quality company named "Eddie Marine."  They too build some incredible components and deserve a look as well.  I have personally conducted business with Eddie Marine and their service is outstanding.  Pricing should be very similar between these two manufacturers.  Lucky for me , I live here in Southern California and am almost directly in the middle of these two shops.  When it comes time for me to focus on the rigging of this hull, I will be leaning towards Eddie Marine as I have previously worked with them and would like to continue to support them.

Do you have any photographs that you can post showing the notched transom that Allen is working on?  Or would you rather wait until the end of the build to share the photographs??

Henry

[Rick Bettua]

Hi Henry

Not yet as it is still in the mold.  Once it comes out of the mold I will share them.

The notch dimensions are 36" wide X 8" high from centerline X 10" deep.

Rick

[Rick Bettua]

[Rick Bettua]

Here is a picture of the hull still in the mold.  You can see the notch in the rear, today the transom will go in.  Gelcoat is black and Edencraft also uses laminates of black carbon fiber mat.

Rick

[Henry Todd]

Mr. Bettua,

That looks fantastic!  Thank you for sharing the photo with us!

Henry

[jim mckinnon]

nice hull layup, Ive put a single 300 hp four stroke Yamaha V6 on mine and it does 48knots top speed with a 17p prop on a bolt on pod extension. and 51knots with the incorrect prop a 19p. (all figures heavy ship with 450 ltrs fuel).

regards Jim